RS,
You painfully disappoint me. I thought your caustic criticism was for the fun of it. You seemed to enjoy the great though unnecessarily nasty writing you do.
But after the last comment about Limbaugh, I’ve changed my mind. Now you look to me to be genuinely hateful.
This is not good and I’m disheartened.
I even had a good idea for implementing your rosy glassed idea of healthcare, but forget it.
Hatred is like warts. The more you have the uglier you get. And by the way you personally attack rather than speak to issues, as you have with me, I’d say you’re pretty ugly.
I hope you get over it warty one.
Goodbye.
Grimgold

Gee, Grim, I’m so damned sorry I so ‘painfully disappoint’ you. You disappoint me, since you can’t be bothered to provide sources for the claims you make or answer my arguments like an adult, but so be it.

I enjoy my ‘caustic criticism’ and do get much fun out of it, as do some others, I’m told. Nastiness, like humor, is often in the mind of the beholder, and let’s just say you have been rendered a cyclops with an eye patch by your devotion to your ideology. You sometimes don’t seem like a bad guy, but you’ve become obsessed with things such as taxes, and then get in a snit if others aren’t as obsessed as you are. You also obviously get huffy if someone challenges you to prove your information or provides a detailed refutation of your claims.

I also think it’s hilarious that you accuse me of ‘personal attacks’ without citing exactly what they are, and then call me ‘warty one.’ (???) Oh, Jesus, will I ever recover from that schoolboy slam?

In fact, I am not consumed by hatred, as you say, but I am disgusted and angry at what the right-wing GOP of Rush, Reagan and the Bushes have done to this country. If you think that’s hatred, then think that.

After the hateful comments Limbaugh has made over the years, and your self-confessed love for Rush’s rhetoric, I would think you’d have grown a thick hide for sarcasm and developed a gritty sense of humor. Apparently it’s only okay when your side does it, huh?

It’s too bad you have to bid goodbye now, Grim, but, as they used to say in Tennessee when I was a boy, ‘don’t the let door hit ya where the good Lord split ya’ on your way out!

Grim, I insinuated no such thing — that’s the assertion YOU MADE in an earlier post in this thread — “I’ve known that over half of our income goes to taxes…” — which you obviously can’t back up with a reliable source, so you’re now reduced to playing word games.

Our current ‘capitalist model’ is based on the modern huge multi-national corporation, which is essentially a tyranny ruled by a CEO; there are other models, such as the agricultural/local brand that was in effect in America before the advent of national corporations in the late 19th century.

(Incidentally, point me to the place in the Constitution where ‘free market’ or ‘capitalism’ is mentioned. The country was founded on no particular economic system, but to guarantee the rights of the governed, limit the government’s intrusions on the people, and insure the freedom to change the government to benefit the governed when it became necessary. Remember: our government is ‘of, by and for the people’ — not for capitalist corporations nor for the promulgation of ‘free markets.’)

BTW, it’s not true that the average Brit pays 70 percent of their income in taxes — it’s closer to 40. They also have the most ‘Americanized’ economy of any European state and, perhaps you missed it, PM Gordon Brown just nationalized the banks. Aside from that, the UK is a parliamentary democracy — the citizens can change their health care and welfare system anytime they desire by electing Tories who are champing at the bit to do so, but they haven’t. They learned their lesson under Margaret Thatcher.

You should read Obama’s health care plan — in fact, it will be cheaper and more efficient than the system we have now.

You have obviously never sat in the ER with a friend with full health insurance from her job writhing in pain while the for-profit hospital’s bureaucrat makes sure she has sufficient insurance to be admitted. You have also not experienced having a friend with cancer dropped by her insurance company for her chronic condition, after years of paying through the nose for health insurance, because some faceless corporate bureaucrat decided she became too expensive for them to cover. If you had, you might better understand the dimensions of the problem and how disgusting our for-profit health care system really is.

Canadians and Norwegians and others with national health care don’t have to wait to be admitted in the ER; they show their card and that’s it.

We won’t need ‘new health boards’ incidentally — the hospitals, clinics, doctors and nurses are already there — it’s just the method of payment, and how much they are paid that’s in question. Preventative treatment, or treatment at the outset of an illness before it gets to the point where the patient needs an ambulance, is always cheaper than an ER admission.

BTW, Grim, if you want to have a serious discussion, don’t bring up that flaming bag of cat crap Limbaugh.

Perhaps you haven’t noticed: He’s LYING to you.

Concerning your concern concerning corporations, you are correct in that they care about the bottom line more than there customers. However this doesn’t reflect capitilism as much as monolopy, and therefore another brand of socialism, run by big business rather than the govt. Large corps don’t represent free enterprise.

Our ‘capitalist model,’ (a phrase that smells Marxist) includes fiat currency (dollars that can inflate and hyper-inflate), and a confusing tax policy. It doesn’t follow the free enterprise model this country is based on and ought to be reformed. This would work better than a govt takeover of our free enterprise system which is what liberals now in power want. For example, they are now espousing that Obama succeed where Bill failed and take over the healthcare system so that each will give according to his ability and each will receive according to his need. This means the govt would sieze one-seventh of our economy (according to His Most Wonderful Correctness Rush Limbaugh – who’s cat I’m not worthy to feed). Of course taxes would have to go up substantually to pay for the new health boards which would consist of thousands of new fed employees – all very well paid.

Your writing “more than half the average income” insuates that you believe the govt takes half peoples’ incomes. Is this true?

I thoroughly agree with you about exploding Pintos, Chinese Communist imported lead- painted toys and so on. There should be a balance between govt regulation and free enterprise, obviously.

the average Brit pays about 70 cents on every dollar in taxes, yet they are being hit as hard as we are by the global economic crisis. Yep, they have ‘cradle to grave’ socialism and they don’t like it.

“If you’re a liberal, from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs, would be the best method.”

That is a line borrowed from Marxism, and not what traditional American liberals think. Do you believe the people should be heavily regulated while corporations should be allowed to run free? Mussolini had the same opinion.

You know what, Grim, the average Norwegian pays about 70 cents on every dollar in taxes, yet they aren’t being hit as hard as we are by the global economic crisis. Yep, they have ‘cradle to grave’ socialism and they like it. (It’s a democracy and they could vote it out anytime they choose — but they don’t.) While it might be anathema to you, mainly because you have rejected it without really thinking about it, tight regulation of business and nationalizing certain areas of society, such as health care and public utilities, does work, as it has in Scandinavia since the end of WWII. I have also met Canadians who like their ‘socialized’ health care system much more than ours. Meanwhile, the ‘capitalist model,’ as practiced in the US, has led to repeated economic bubbles and crashes and does not fairly serve the interests of the average American or the financial stability of our nation. If you happen to be filthy rich, I can understand why you might want to preserve the present system but, short of that, being a poor or middle-class conservative ‘free market’ capitalist these days makes about as much sense as cutting off your cock to avoid catching an STD.

You might call ‘socialism’ the embodiment of our Constitution as it represents average people uniting under laws for the common good and to protect themselves not only from the government, but from those who would prey upon us to the general detriment of the country — i.e.: “Enemies foreign and domestic.” The modern US corporation has shown itself — exploding Pintos, lead-based toys, drugs like Vioxx, toxic air pollution, salmonella peanuts, hedge funds, etc. — to be a domestic enemy and should be dealt with as such. Who is going to do that if not the government, which is the expression of the majority of the public’s will?

Bitter is right — most people aren’t as concerned about taxes as they are about over-priced health insurance, a gift from Republican president Richard Nixon that the GOP has made sure ‘keeps on giving’ — and ruining our economy and our health. Just think, Grim, if Bill Clinton had been able to reform health care back in 1993, GM, Chrysler and Ford wouldn’t be going belly-up, along with other US companies, decimated by our out-of-control for-profit health care system.

How much should we be taxed then, you might eventually ask?
If you’re a liberal, from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs, would be the best method.

Or, as an alternative, let your kind sweet Obama govt take all our money then dole it out using their superior knowledge of the needs of the unwashed masses of Americans, like you and me.

Bitter, you make an excellent point concerning med ins. Same can be indicated concerning property taxes.

This is a no-brainer: Are you actually denying that taxes finance streets, freeways, bridges, sewer systems and water lines? That cops and firefighters, judges and inspectors are NOT paid by our tax dollar? All of those things add up to a civilized society, so you’re wrong to say the amount does not dictate our level of civilization. If we cut taxes, some of those items have to go — what should it be, Grim: Cops, roads, safe bridges, your sewer pipes, safe drinkable water from the tap?

That tax revenue is sometimes misspent is a given, but I’d rather have some of it misspent than not have the fire department on hand when my house is going up in flames.

If Ed doesn’t want to live in a civilized society, perhaps he can move to an isolated jungle where there are no taxes, and no streets, sewer pipes, water lines, firefighters or cops. Ed can take care of all of that himself, and do the rest of us a favor by relieving us of his pathetic whining because he has to pay taxes.