There is much debate right now about whether or not Senator Barak Obama can win over the millions of women that we hoping to see the first female president in the form of Senator Hillary Clinton. Many women that support Clinton blame Obama and his surrogates for much of the sexist treatment they feel Clinton received during the primary campaign. The amount of blame placed upon sexism as a reason for Clinton’s loss is ridiculous. Were their moments when the media treated her in a sexist manner? Probably. Was that the reason the Clinton camp ran a poor campaign? No.
Women voters must get beyond their perception that Obama was somehow responsible for the so called sexist treatment of Clinton and focus on what Obama will provide for women versus what Republican John McCain will do for women. Obama will protect a women’s right to choose through what may be several Supreme Court appointments and has a plan for providing universal healthcare. McCain will move to install justices that will seek to remove a women’s right to choose and he believes that the government has no business trying to provide healthcare for all Americans.
Choice and healthcare alone are enough for Clinton’s female supporters to join with Obama but I’ll add one more, Iraq. John McCain intends to keep our sons, daughters, wives, husbands etc. in Iraq for a long time. Barak Obama wants to bring them home.
So to women voters I say this. You can be angry about the perception that Hillary Clinton was treated differently because she is a woman, blame Obama and help elect John McCain, or you can be the smart intelligent women that you are and realize that in the end Barak Obama’s policies are so close to Clinton’s that it would be irrational not to support him.
Sure. A patronizing scolding will work. Screw you.
Maybe we’re not ready to make nice. Win us back.
Comment by bittershaman2 — June 6, 2008 @ 10:49 am
Yeah N, the “You’re either with us or against us” rhetoric went out of style years ago. Don’t mistake my politeness for acceptance, I’m still way beyond bitter.
How will McCain do all these evil things with a Democratic majority? Obama has given me no confidence in his ability to accomplish anything that he has promised. I don’t like his advisors or his Chicago-style politics.
The definition of what it means to be a Democrat has changed for thousands of people. Most people don’t want to speak up for fear of being badgered into submission. Bears eat badgers though, so I’m cool.
I apologize if this was all meant as parody. Calling women emotional creatures who will wise up if you threaten their bodies and families a little? I love the irony of going through with that after first downplaying sexism.
I was a lifelong yellow-dog anti-Reagan Democrat from a family of Union workers, Vetrans, and goddamn superwomen. None of them are buying it. We will not be bullied with wedge issues by a political party that refuses to actually stand up for them.
Comment by Danger Bear — June 6, 2008 @ 11:48 am
I too am more than a little bitter and share the sentiments of both bittershaman2 and Danger Bear!
I’m sure we all have had enough of the “You’re either with us or against us” bullshit from the cheneybush scumbags!
I have not gotten over Obama playing the race card at every opportunity when he had nothing of substance to offer, or his cowardice in refusing to debate with Hillary when she challenged him anyplace, anywhere and anytime!
He knew damned well he was no match on a one to one without Tim the turd choosing the questions, sneering and smirking and asking stupid and trivial nonsense instead of important issues.
Nor have I forgotten Obama’s flip-flop on his raving rev, ” I could never dump my mentor rev. Wright.” to “I never knew him!” Or his and constant whining, “Rules are rules and you can’t CHANGE THE RULES Hillary!” then his flip-flop to “It’s OK to change the rules if I can have half of Hillary’s votes!”
At this point I cannot stand to look at or listen to BO or the constant reruns of his blather on every TV station!
I have fought all my life for women’s rights, and it has been an uphill battle all the way with the bible thumping sexist fundies trying every dirty trick they can think of to keep women”IN THEIR PLACE”. ANYONE WHO THINKS SEXISM ISN’T ALIVE AND WELL HERE IN THE USA IS SORELY OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE WORKING CLASS WOMEN!
There is a lot more I would like to say but I had better stop before I tell you how I REALLY feel!
Comment by kerry — June 6, 2008 @ 12:37 pm
Bittershaman2-
What an articulate response! I can see that you really have a clear grasp at what’s at stake this November. I can see you will be the first to complain about what McCain will do to this country without taking any responsibilty for making it happen by abondoning the Democratic Party because your candidate lost.
There is a sense of you are with us or without us. Either you are going to elect a Democrat or not. There is no gray area here, either Obama or McCain will be president. Lets be clear on where I am coming from. I found neither Clinton or Obama to be my choice for the Democrats nominee but I won’t whine about my candidate losing instead I will work to make sure a Democrat is elected and so should you.
Comment by N — June 6, 2008 @ 12:40 pm
I read often but seldom comment, however today I really feel it’s necessary to point out something.
Let’s pretend (just for the sake of argument) that HRC did clinch the nomination.
If the Clinton campaign had turned it’s head and a deaf ear to anyone making racial slurs against BHO…for example calling him the “N” word, printing T-shirts with that on it, starting a 527 with a nasty acronym, ect.
Then after the win, extended it’s arms to Obama’s supporters saying “Come vote for our candidate, oh you know we never agreed with any of that stuff! My goodness, you should just get over it! We can all work together.”
Do you think for one second it would work?
The trashing that HRC and anyone who dared voice their support for her received from the media, the Obama supporters, the blog-community and her own party was shamefully disgusting and appallingly inappropriate.
Most of us who voted Clinton are planning to vote the straight Democratic ticket simply because we support a common goal; and despite the contemptuous attitude we’ve received from the BHO supporters, we don’t need to be reminded. We are intelligent enough to realize the consequences of doing otherwise. But on a personal note, as a woman, I can assure you it’s going to take a lot more than this type of condescending BS to make me feel anything less than contempt for the winning team, and I certainly won’t forget it.
Comment by Greepin868 — June 6, 2008 @ 12:41 pm
Kerry-
No one said sexism doesn’t exist. I do think you have the wrong person playing the race card. Bill Clinton, who I have always loved, brought it to the table. Blaming Obama and turning against the Dems is short sighted. But if you want more of the same kind of leadership we have now vote for McCain. Just remember you will have no one to blame but yourself.
Comment by N — June 6, 2008 @ 12:44 pm
Greenpin868-
Again there was no intention to be condescending just a reminder not to be short sighted and allow the Republicans to win.
Comment by N — June 6, 2008 @ 12:46 pm
I’m not “whining” about my candidate losing, Mr Articulate. I’m offended. I’m angry.
Don’t be short-sighted. If I stay home this November, there’s quite a few local and state candidates that don’t get my vote either.
Win me over. You got the kids to the polls; can you handle a grown woman?
Comment by bittershaman2 — June 6, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
Ok, I’ll try to switch back to polite mode for a second.
Bill Cinton did no such thing. He didn’t call Hillary D-Punjab. He didn’t send out Jesse Jackson Jr after Obama lost NH to deride HRC. The Clinton campaign did’t scream “Bradley Effect” to subtly call voters unspoken racists. He didn’t send out a 4 page memo that explained how exactly to play the race card. Obama’s strong anti-war stance is a “fairy tale” and I call anyone who is 20 years younger than me “kid”. I also wish somebody would compare me to Jesse Jackson.
Only one campaign had something to gain from playing the race card. David Axelrod has a history of running astroturf smear campaigns for his corporate clients. Lets not forget that he has Dick Gephart’s team with him now too, they are the ones who went full bore on Howard Dean in 2004.
I’m still under the impression that Obama had to play the race card and smear Bill Clinton in order to get ahead. How can I trust anyone who either actively helped or stood apatheticaly silent?
Comment by Danger Bear — June 6, 2008 @ 1:50 pm
Greepin868
I feel that way too, it’s the same old sexist double standard combined with racist double standard. Obamaniacs used it all on Hillary but any response was a RACE ATTACK on poor little BO!
——————————————–
N [I do think you have the wrong person playing the race card. Bill Clinton, who I have always loved, brought it to the table.]
You better go back and see the video or transcript of just exactly what Bill said!
It was the media who twisted his words to make them SOUND racist then BO jumped on it and played THE VICTIM for all it was worth! The Clintons have never said or done anything racist but have always fought it.
[Were their moments when the media treated her in a sexist manner? Probably. ]
No “probably” about it! It was absolutely sexist!
Don’t you dare blame me or any of the Hillary supporters for the (“so called” as you say) sexists nominating BO who is far less qualified and experienced to go up against the GOP swiftboaters than Hillary!
I’ve spent weeks surfing the net blogs and forums and read a multitude of posts and responses. Few seem concerned or even interested in the real issues. Given a choice between a white WOMAN and a black MAN they voted for the man. Given a choice between a black MAN and a white MAN just who do you think these racist, sexist men (and a few women) are going to vote for?
Is that simple enough for you?
Comment by kerry — June 6, 2008 @ 1:56 pm
Bittershaman2-
I know you can read. Did you not see the disclaimer about not being an Obama supporter, I was an Edwards supporter. If you want McCain vote for him and get what you deserve, four more years of Bush/Rove policies. If you feel you need to be won over by the Dems right now then you clearly do not know what is at stake in this election. Again, at least two Supreme Court justices will be replaced during the next presidential term. That alone should be enough not to vote for a republican. As a “grown” man I guess I would expect more rational thought from a “grown” woman.
Comment by N — June 6, 2008 @ 2:06 pm
Kerry-
Blame Obama blame the media blame anybody except those that ran Clinton’s less than stellar campaign. I will still return to the bottom line, it is better to elect a Democrat, any Democrat this Nov. than electing a Republican. I will say this, both Clinton and Obama played the racist and sexist cards unless you don’t recall Hill and Bill saying the boys had ganged up on her, and the media took it and made it huge. If you took offense to how I have presented the argument so be it, it was not my intention to offend anyone, except maybe McCain. All I want is for all Dems to take a step back and realize what is at stake here. The rabid Obama fans said they wouldn’t vote for Clinton and now the Clinton fans say they won’t vote for Obama. Both camps still don’t get it. Beating McCain and the GOP is what is really important here.
Comment by N — June 6, 2008 @ 2:11 pm
Way to win me over Mr Rational. I wasn’t originally a Clinton supporter. I liked Kucinich and was leaning toward Dodd. My husband was Hillary all the way. Who the hell said I was voting for McCain?
Would you allow anyone to talk to your mother with that attitude?
Insults won’t get me to the polls.
Got anything positive to say?
Comment by bittershaman2 — June 6, 2008 @ 2:33 pm
N I’m sure you can read, but your comprehension needs refreshing.
No matter how many times you repeat the lie, neither of the Clintons played the race card!
FYI Clinton was so loved by the black people they made him an honorary black!
The boys DID gang up on her! Telling the truth is not sexist!
Talking down to women IS SEXIST!
Now go be patronizing to your wife…if you have one…and if she’ll let you!
Comment by kerry — June 6, 2008 @ 2:53 pm
FROM today’s bartcop.com
“QUOTES”
["I'm overwhelmed with a sense of joy."
-- Jesse Jackson, on Obama winning the Dem nod
I'm confused, but that's happened a lot lately.
You could say this race turned on one thing, and that one thing was Obama's utter disgust at being compared to Jesse Jackson back in Carolina.
How can Jesse be overwhelmed with joy that the man who was disgusted and insulted at being compared to him has won? ]
So N perhaps you would like to explain how Bill comparing BO to Jesse Jackson is racist???
Enquiring minds want to know!
Comment by kerry — June 6, 2008 @ 3:28 pm
The bottom line is- we want respect.
We need a reason to vote for an empty suit with a “D” on his chest and nasty supporters.
Give us a reason to vote FOR Obama and not just anti-McCain.
Comment by bittershaman2 — June 6, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
Good campaigning is mere stagecraft. Photo-ops and symbolic gestures are unimpressive to me. Its all about the money now, but thats a different story.
N, this campaign has shined a light on many of the shortcomings of modern political rhetoric. I have been an ass. I have been using childish name-calling and sexist framing of my arguments without knowing it. I am ashamed.
Please understand that this isn’t about any candidate. It is about showing everyone a basic level of respect that all human beings deserve.
The worst thing is all those millions of youth voters who now believe that oblivious bullying is the best tactic to get what you want. Nothing personal man, you’re just kinda pouring salt in fresh wounds.
Comment by Danger Bear — June 6, 2008 @ 4:23 pm
Hehe, I didn’t see Shaman’s respect comment. I was eating lunch and forgot to press submit.
Comment by Danger Bear — June 6, 2008 @ 4:26 pm
Bear, bittershaman2, N could have addressed his spiel to people, folks, Americans etc. but chose to make it sexist by addressing it to only women. Adding snide comments to his responses in no way endeared him either. Is he so uninformed that he thinks Hillary only had female supporters? Or just an insensitive clod! In any case he reminds me of people who come up to you just after a tragic event and tell you something really helpful like, “stop sniveling, pull yourself together, get past it!” and my favorite, “If there’s anything I can do…” I swear I’ll kill the next one that says that to me because if you should call one of them be assured they will be too busy. Bart is the only person I ever knew besides myself who could see a need and take action without being asked.
So N just leave us alone to handle our feelings in our own way, we are WOMEN AND MEN, not whining, emotional, screaming girls like you see in Oprah’s audience.
Maybe one day our dreams will come true, and WOMEN of all colors will be FREE AND EQUAL too!
Comment by kerry — June 6, 2008 @ 8:10 pm
Kerry, are you the water heater lady? I remember emailing Bart and telling him your story seemed entirely accurate based on my experience.
That’s the sort of thing I’m looking for the Obama supporters to give me. What will he do for the rural poor, the disabled, the people with no safety net?
Address OUR problems. Don’t just call us rascist hicks.
(If you aren’t that woman, well, never mind then…)
Comment by bittershaman2 — June 7, 2008 @ 11:50 am
Yes bittershaman2 I am. That is why I do the toons for Bart, my small way of paying him back.
Comment by kerry — June 7, 2008 @ 3:42 pm
Kerry-
If you want to continue to argue that I am sexist that’s fine. There was nothing sexist in the post. My argument was clear if you read the entire post. Clinton and Obama’s policies are almost identical. If you are angry about how Clinton was treated by the media that is fine. It is completely incorrect to lay the blame for Clinton’s treatment with Obama. Again if you don’t want to vote for Obama fine but do not blame anyone but yourself if women’s rights take a long step back under the McCain.
Clearly your lack of objectivity and intelligence leaves you no choice but to attack me personally. I placed my post because several women friends of mine suggested
I do so because they were concerned that some women Clinton supporters would react to Obama’s nomination just they way you have, with blinders on.
Comment by N — June 7, 2008 @ 3:44 pm
Kerry-
My wife has decided that she want to weigh in on your personal attacks on me. Here is what she has to say:
As a Clitnon supporter from day one and also a Democrat and nervous about Obama as president, I am offended that you are making your political views into a personal attack on my husband and my marrige. Perhaps you should take all that hot air and do what Hillary Clinton suggester her supporters do today, strongly support Barak Obama and elect a Democrat president in November. Because if you don’t you are risking women’s rights by electing John McCain.
Comment by N — June 7, 2008 @ 3:52 pm
Hey N, tell your women friends to post their own commentary if we disgust you so much.
I listened to Obama when the primaries started- he didn’t say anything.
Then the attacks from his supporters started.
I’m staying home in November unless someone gives me a positive reason to vote Obama or one goddam big apology.
Comment by bittershaman2 — June 7, 2008 @ 4:15 pm
Bittershama2-
Where do you get this disgust crap. Don’t put words in my mouth. I never attacked anyone personally until Kerry attacked me. I am here to elect Democrats not to get in shouting matches with members of my own party. If you feel bitter fine I am not saying you shouldn’t. What I am saying is that in the long run voting for John McCain or not voting in all does not serve you or anyone else. If you want one good reason the best one I can give you is Supreme Court justices. There could be two or three to replace during the next 4-8 years. Do you really want the GOP to be able stack the court with conservatives?
Comment by N — June 7, 2008 @ 4:24 pm
N Clearly your supercilious lack of objectivity and intelligence leaves you no choice but to post petty, arrogant comments and unwarranted accusations! It is YOU who has attacked and belittled everyone on this thread with your snide, condescending slurs!
I will not respond to any more of your bating so go be ‘superior” to your wife and her ‘girl’ friends!
Take your pompous unwanted advice and imperious lectures and go Cheney yourself!
Comment by kerry — June 7, 2008 @ 5:12 pm
Note to Mrs N:
He’s your husband. You love him, you live with him, and you don’t feel he’s sexist.
But please understand, we don’t know him personally. And more to the point, he has never met us. In person, he might be a charming guy. But all we have is words from a stranger. That’s all we can judge him by.
He doesn’t win anyone over in print.
Comment by bittershaman2 — June 7, 2008 @ 9:33 pm
bittershaman2 I forgot to ask you what you have in mind in your #20 post?
Comment by kerry — June 7, 2008 @ 11:49 pm
I didn’t have anything really in mind. After I turned off the computer my mind put it together. All I was thinking was;
This woman has has some really rough times. She hit bottom through no fault of her own.
And she bounced back without a whimper.
And now someone who has no idea of her life or reasons she might have had for supporting her candidate…
well,
presumes.
I just found it offensive and rude.
Comment by bittershaman2 — June 8, 2008 @ 12:12 am
Thank you bittershaman2, I was hoping you were planning a letter writing campaign or something and wanted to be in on whatever it was. LOL
Things are worse now and I sincerely doubt they will improve in time for me, Senior Citizens being at the bottom of the politicians list if indeed we are ever on it.
I you do decide to do something, be sure to let me know. ;O)
Comment by kerry — June 8, 2008 @ 3:03 pm
During Sen Clinton’s recent speech she mentioned an elderly woman in a hospice. She had her daughter bring her an absentee ballot so she could vote. She died before the election so her vote couldn’t be counted. It breaks my heart to hear because the exact same thing happened to my grandma 1 week before the CA primary.
If we lived in a caucus state then she wouldn’t have even had the chance to be counted. It still burns my ass to hear about Axelrod’s “good” campaign strategy.
Comment by Danger Bear — June 8, 2008 @ 4:16 pm
Oh Bear How very sad. Now that has me crying, but I needed a good old fashioned cry, just haven’t been able to.
I’m determined to make it to November, no matter what. I got severe frostbite on both hands when my front door and lock froze shut while I took my furkid out to piddle in zero degrees winter whiteout blizzard. Was snowed in for several months and with two feet of snow and ice I still managed to climb over the frozen gate to go vote last election.
I was outraged that John the quitter threw the election to Dumbya, especially before the absentee ballots from our troops were counted. I haven’t gotten over that yet either.
I too live in “Colifornyah” as der clutchengrabber governor says. LOL Don’t know for how much longer though.
I wrote a tribute to Hillary I will post now, then go have the last of that brandy I bought for Xmas and have a good soul cleansing, red eyed, snotty nosed squall. ;O)
Comment by kerry — June 8, 2008 @ 5:07 pm