The Toon is good but its just the tip of the iceburg as they say.
I think its Grassley that is working on a bill to stop the US refineries from exporting oil and it has the GOP absolutely rabid,
Last Summer the US refined crude into Diesel fuel for export and provided a shortage on gasoline.
And record profits and not just for the petro companys history but for every buisness for all time and They cant build any more refineries due to the tree hugging liberal fairies,Bullshit!
The truth is they havent built any new refineries because they have expanded their existing refineries.
Market manipulation by speculators in the global exchanges where in june of ’08 every barrel of crude was traded on average of 11 times and sold each time at a profit driving the price to record highs.
The price is also tied to the value of the American dollar as the coin of the realm for crude is american dollars as per the OPEC accords of 1972 and 1979,as the american dollar
gains in value the price of crude drops on the world market and if the value of the dollar drops the price of crude goes up so as keep
the value of crude at a constant level.
Notice when the price of crude goes up then the
market falls and vice versa.
In essence its a shell and pea game that any carnival barker knows how to run and congress is shilling for the media and the american consumer at large but what hurts here is worse in other parts of the world where the prices are nearly double the domestic prices.
Knowing this you can see where it is more lucrative to export for higher profits while driving up demand and reducing supply and feeding the entrepenures.
Whoops,its another one of those lucky trifecta’s.
Comment by Rainlander — August 25, 2008 @ 11:40 pm
Rain, you forgot to mention the real culprits, not the oil companies, who make about 6% on their investments, but the Arabs. Why are you so hateful toward big oil and forget all about the Arabs?
You are right on about the relation of the dollar to oil. We need to go back to a non-inflating dollar, and we need it now.
Thank God the car companies are finally getting serious about a gasoline-hybrid plug-in auto. If people are plugging in their cars, it means the first 20 – 40 miles will be electric. This is virtually all of the time for a great number of folks.
Natural gas has recently become very prevalent here in the USA. It can be used to make electricity, putting natural gas into direct competition with oil (because of the coming electric cars). This will cause an independent America, finally, and a nice steady drop in the price of crude. You’ll like it. Promise. Grimmy
We can’t have plugin cars until the electric delivery infrastructure is fixed. It doesn’t matter how you produce the electricity- wind, coal, nukes,natural gas, baby kittens- the grid can’t handle the future load.
Self-contained home electric generating systems like solar, wind, and the first generation power cells, can allow a minority to fuel cars but most people need power lines.
Comment by bittershaman2 — August 26, 2008 @ 1:13 am
Bitter, you are certainly correct. With the danger of brownouts and blackouts, there is a problem. However this is okay because the plug-in hybrids will come onto the market gradually. Knowing the car companies, there will be a large premium to own one at first, same as there was with the Prius.
Also fuel cells need energy to be put into them. Doesn’t that essentually make them plug in?
…. Baby kittens???
-Grimmy
Grim,
I havent heard from you in a while and its good.
About Big Oil,They have proven themselves time and again to be princely liars,from the sweetheart deals with the american automakers to global warming to the Exxon Valdez to the Chevron Condoleeza Rice and the failed coup attempt to remove Hugo Chavez.
I could go on all night and I have a piss poor memory.
I feel the majority of americans feel much like I do about the integrity of an industry which
takes a substance that has lain fallow for millions of years and is the property of every man,woman and child on the surface and which claims not to be making a profit yet reports the highest in history from one quarter to the next and yet recieves money from our government
and refuses to pay any taxes on their windfall.
The Economy is both based now on their energy
and its worth and no aspect is left untouched by the burdens of its demands.
Attempts to find alternatives are quietly thwarted or very publicly decried and no oppurtunity to extoll the virtues of drilling for more in lands set aside by the government in the past are left unexploited and they say it is a good thing and neccasary to make the sacrifice.
I have one word for them;Hogwash!
The Saudi’s,where to start?
How about terrorism,18 of the 20 highjackers
who were involved in the 9/11 attacks were Saudi
and not one Iraqi in the bunch.
We provide the Saudi’s military support,Why?
Maybe they are so impoverished thay cant afford
to protect themselves and so You and I must pay for it.
Pedophilia,Its a custom of theirs and an old one.
I understand that aviation fuel in Saudi Arabia
is .38 cents a gallon,how must this make the Airline industry here feel as they stave off bankruptcy.
Again I could go on and on but,
its pointless just being a keyboard commando and it does’nt prove anything one way or another
bandying opinions about,still.
Gentlemen,We have a problem.
An old problem that is steadily getting worse and it seems to be gaining velocity as the Bush
term draws to a weary,greedy end.
Luckily,there are solutions that we are on the cusp of solving.
Electric cars,good,theyve been around for over a
century.
So where are they?
I understand that GM made some fine ones but that there is only one left in existence and it is in the smithsonian.
The electric car You mention,Grim is the 2010
Chevy Volt.
It will still depend on gasoline after 40 miles of use,in that regard it is rather like a Diesel locomotive except that its done in a very wasteful and inefficient way virtually
guaranteeing its own demise just like the EV-1.
Let me explain and I’ll try to be brief,
It uses a conventional drivetrain with thousands
of lubricated and extraeneously cooled parts.
These parts have weight and therefore mass and since they move against one another they have friction which takes our old friend energy to put and keep in motion.
A modern induction motor has three moving parts,
the commutator and two bearings.
Recent advances have them at or near 93% efficiency,here is where a locomotive comes in.
The smart way is to incorporate two motors into
the drive wheel component itself using the suspension to leverage the vehicle into motion.
Powering the unit after battery depletion can be handled by an off the shelf Gen-Stat run preferably by Compressed Natural Gas or the more caloric Propane both inexpensive for the moment and readily available.
Inexpensive to buy,own and operate and its earth friendly so it must not be profitable to manufacture as its lifespan will be many times
a conventional vehicle’s,right?
The bottom line,
200 million hybrid electric vehicles at .02 per mile in america
alone would free up somewhere in the neighborhood of 440 billion dollars (US 2008 est.).
That money would stay in america and not go to the other OPEC nations.
The dollar would gain huge ground as more money is freed for investment and the merchantile exchange would experience record sustainable growth.
Technology would increase as more and more students enroll in colleges and universities and go on to research and jobs in american buisnesses.
Prices on every commodity would tumble as the price of manufacture or growth and the storing
costs would be reduced to a fraction of todays energy costs.
Not to beat a dead horse but I could go on and on.
I seem to recall that the original question was;
What do I have against Big Oil and the Saudi’s?,
Well let Me tell You,but its all just My .02 cents and maybe someday that .02 cents will get me down to the corner investment firm for some sound financial advice.
Thanks for the interest in My thoughts,Grim.
I treasure Yours.
Cheers,Rain.
Heres a link for You to enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykT2OFXpJkg
Comment by Rainlander — August 26, 2008 @ 10:32 pm
This is the type of fuel cell I was thinking of (The company’s based near my area): http://www.plugpower.com/technology/benefits.cfm
Kittens as fuel probably wouldn’t be cost effective because they aren’t fat enough for biodiesel and it would be really difficult to convince people it was the patriotic thing to do.
Natural gas and propane are still relatively cheap only because the corps are making their obscene profits on gas and diesel. Any substantial drop in oil consumption, such as widespread use in cars, will jack the price of natural gas and propane up. Currently, the cost of using either for heat is almost equivilent to oil.
Comment by bittershaman2 — August 27, 2008 @ 1:59 am
BS2,
There You go.
Fuel cell technology is in its infancy and there
is no telling how far it will advance.
I guess the point I was making is that an electric car does not need to be an elaborate machine.
Propane is more expensive than other fuels but its energy content is higher than other fuels as well so the price per calorie makes it an alternative and its low in hydrocarbon emmission.
Kittens as Bio-mass fuel is a travesty,
baby seals would be much better after the skins
are harvested for Paris Hilton of course.
I’m surprised that no one has tried methane as a
source in fuel cell technology,Washington DC makes enough of that in a month to propel this nation for years alone.
But seriously,Alternative fuels wont ever become
feasible until it gets its own lobbyist to convince our lawmakers.
Cheers Rain.
Rain, thanks for the rather thorough response. I apologize for not being around more, but I have a life that must be attended to.
The bone I was picking with you was beating up on the poor bedraggled oils and not the Middle East cartel, especially the Arabs.
The big oils only make a 6% markup on product, no matter how awful they are (and I agree they are not honest people). You also need to beat up on Microsoft if you are going down this road, it has a lot higher profit margins.
The reason oils are making so many dollars is because of the price of crude, which is largely dictated by the Saudi’s production rates and world wide demand, not the evil oils!
There is a video out about the EV-1 showing how stupidly GM behaved in the face of enthusiastic support. Both GM and Ford are facing potential bankrupcy (Ford is currently at about $4.00 per share and GM $10 which is very cheap). Their refusal to produce a hybrid, like the Prius, has cost them dearly. They are now facing the grim prospect of going belly-up if they don’t get something fuel efficient on the assembly line, and in a hurry, such as the Volt.
The plug-in hybrid electric is coming and won’t experience a demise, because of the enthusiasm of the most successful car company at present, Toyota, and its competitors.
The centerpiece of capitalism, competition, will cause the success of plug-in hybrids (not the govt BTW). And waste and inefficiency will be eleminated by good old competition (my conservative slip is showing, as Oddcat would say. Sorry).
Even if the first plug-ins only go 20 miles before the gas/diesel engine kicks in, this will still result in an overwhelming reduction in the use of crude. A great many people go less than 20 miles per day.
You and your liberal roommates are doing something else that bothers me a lot – picking on evil big business but not the fed govt. I assure you the federal government is every bit as evil, underhanded, dishonest, and uncaring as business interests. This is one reason I want the Fairtax done; it will link govt directly to the economy. When people spend money (thereby paying the consumption tax) govt will do well. This gives Obama and McCain incentive to keep the economy on an even keel and to support things like the plug-in hybrid, something that WILL, not would, be of great benefit.
Your writing: “The bottom line,
200 million hybrid electric vehicles at .02 per mile in america
alone would free up somewhere in the neighborhood of 440 billion dollars (US 2008 est.).”
No. It should read: “The bottom line,
200 million hybrid electric vehicles at .02 per mile in america
alone WILL free up somewhere in the neighborhood of 440 billion dollars (US 2008 est.).”
Dear God this is exciting stuff! Our best days are ahead of us!
Gringold
Bitter, your fuelcell ideas are fine, but energy still needs to be put into a fuel cell before it can be used (obviously). This is where natural gas, propane, methane, nuclear, wind, biodiesel, and even Sunpower comes into play. We have huge amounts of gas that have been discovered recently.
BTW, two stocks you might explore that would be natural gas plays are: Linn Energy (LINE) and El Paso Natural Gas (EP). My source for these – Cramer.
I may vote for Paris Hilton. She makes as much sense as O and Mac.
The oils are not making obscene profits, any more than McDonald’s.
It’s the Middle East producers that are making the obscene profits!
The reason the oils are making so much money is because they are selling so much of the stuff at such a high price, and they take a percentage – about 6%.
The Toon is good but its just the tip of the iceburg as they say.
I think its Grassley that is working on a bill to stop the US refineries from exporting oil and it has the GOP absolutely rabid,
Last Summer the US refined crude into Diesel fuel for export and provided a shortage on gasoline.
And record profits and not just for the petro companys history but for every buisness for all time and They cant build any more refineries due to the tree hugging liberal fairies,Bullshit!
The truth is they havent built any new refineries because they have expanded their existing refineries.
Market manipulation by speculators in the global exchanges where in june of ’08 every barrel of crude was traded on average of 11 times and sold each time at a profit driving the price to record highs.
The price is also tied to the value of the American dollar as the coin of the realm for crude is american dollars as per the OPEC accords of 1972 and 1979,as the american dollar
gains in value the price of crude drops on the world market and if the value of the dollar drops the price of crude goes up so as keep
the value of crude at a constant level.
Notice when the price of crude goes up then the
market falls and vice versa.
In essence its a shell and pea game that any carnival barker knows how to run and congress is shilling for the media and the american consumer at large but what hurts here is worse in other parts of the world where the prices are nearly double the domestic prices.
Knowing this you can see where it is more lucrative to export for higher profits while driving up demand and reducing supply and feeding the entrepenures.
Whoops,its another one of those lucky trifecta’s.
Comment by Rainlander — August 25, 2008 @ 11:40 pm
Rain, you forgot to mention the real culprits, not the oil companies, who make about 6% on their investments, but the Arabs. Why are you so hateful toward big oil and forget all about the Arabs?
You are right on about the relation of the dollar to oil. We need to go back to a non-inflating dollar, and we need it now.
Thank God the car companies are finally getting serious about a gasoline-hybrid plug-in auto. If people are plugging in their cars, it means the first 20 – 40 miles will be electric. This is virtually all of the time for a great number of folks.
Natural gas has recently become very prevalent here in the USA. It can be used to make electricity, putting natural gas into direct competition with oil (because of the coming electric cars). This will cause an independent America, finally, and a nice steady drop in the price of crude. You’ll like it. Promise. Grimmy
Comment by grimgold — August 25, 2008 @ 11:54 pm
We can’t have plugin cars until the electric delivery infrastructure is fixed. It doesn’t matter how you produce the electricity- wind, coal, nukes,natural gas, baby kittens- the grid can’t handle the future load.
Self-contained home electric generating systems like solar, wind, and the first generation power cells, can allow a minority to fuel cars but most people need power lines.
Comment by bittershaman2 — August 26, 2008 @ 1:13 am
Bitter, you are certainly correct. With the danger of brownouts and blackouts, there is a problem. However this is okay because the plug-in hybrids will come onto the market gradually. Knowing the car companies, there will be a large premium to own one at first, same as there was with the Prius.
Also fuel cells need energy to be put into them. Doesn’t that essentually make them plug in?
…. Baby kittens???
-Grimmy
Comment by grimgold — August 26, 2008 @ 12:28 pm
Grim,
I havent heard from you in a while and its good.
About Big Oil,They have proven themselves time and again to be princely liars,from the sweetheart deals with the american automakers to global warming to the Exxon Valdez to the Chevron Condoleeza Rice and the failed coup attempt to remove Hugo Chavez.
I could go on all night and I have a piss poor memory.
I feel the majority of americans feel much like I do about the integrity of an industry which
takes a substance that has lain fallow for millions of years and is the property of every man,woman and child on the surface and which claims not to be making a profit yet reports the highest in history from one quarter to the next and yet recieves money from our government
and refuses to pay any taxes on their windfall.
The Economy is both based now on their energy
and its worth and no aspect is left untouched by the burdens of its demands.
Attempts to find alternatives are quietly thwarted or very publicly decried and no oppurtunity to extoll the virtues of drilling for more in lands set aside by the government in the past are left unexploited and they say it is a good thing and neccasary to make the sacrifice.
I have one word for them;Hogwash!
The Saudi’s,where to start?
How about terrorism,18 of the 20 highjackers
who were involved in the 9/11 attacks were Saudi
and not one Iraqi in the bunch.
We provide the Saudi’s military support,Why?
Maybe they are so impoverished thay cant afford
to protect themselves and so You and I must pay for it.
Pedophilia,Its a custom of theirs and an old one.
I understand that aviation fuel in Saudi Arabia
is .38 cents a gallon,how must this make the Airline industry here feel as they stave off bankruptcy.
Again I could go on and on but,
its pointless just being a keyboard commando and it does’nt prove anything one way or another
bandying opinions about,still.
Gentlemen,We have a problem.
An old problem that is steadily getting worse and it seems to be gaining velocity as the Bush
term draws to a weary,greedy end.
Luckily,there are solutions that we are on the cusp of solving.
Electric cars,good,theyve been around for over a
century.
So where are they?
I understand that GM made some fine ones but that there is only one left in existence and it is in the smithsonian.
The electric car You mention,Grim is the 2010
Chevy Volt.
It will still depend on gasoline after 40 miles of use,in that regard it is rather like a Diesel locomotive except that its done in a very wasteful and inefficient way virtually
guaranteeing its own demise just like the EV-1.
Let me explain and I’ll try to be brief,
It uses a conventional drivetrain with thousands
of lubricated and extraeneously cooled parts.
These parts have weight and therefore mass and since they move against one another they have friction which takes our old friend energy to put and keep in motion.
A modern induction motor has three moving parts,
the commutator and two bearings.
Recent advances have them at or near 93% efficiency,here is where a locomotive comes in.
The smart way is to incorporate two motors into
the drive wheel component itself using the suspension to leverage the vehicle into motion.
Powering the unit after battery depletion can be handled by an off the shelf Gen-Stat run preferably by Compressed Natural Gas or the more caloric Propane both inexpensive for the moment and readily available.
Inexpensive to buy,own and operate and its earth friendly so it must not be profitable to manufacture as its lifespan will be many times
a conventional vehicle’s,right?
The bottom line,
200 million hybrid electric vehicles at .02 per mile in america
alone would free up somewhere in the neighborhood of 440 billion dollars (US 2008 est.).
That money would stay in america and not go to the other OPEC nations.
The dollar would gain huge ground as more money is freed for investment and the merchantile exchange would experience record sustainable growth.
Technology would increase as more and more students enroll in colleges and universities and go on to research and jobs in american buisnesses.
Prices on every commodity would tumble as the price of manufacture or growth and the storing
costs would be reduced to a fraction of todays energy costs.
Not to beat a dead horse but I could go on and on.
I seem to recall that the original question was;
What do I have against Big Oil and the Saudi’s?,
Well let Me tell You,but its all just My .02 cents and maybe someday that .02 cents will get me down to the corner investment firm for some sound financial advice.
Thanks for the interest in My thoughts,Grim.
I treasure Yours.
Cheers,Rain.
Heres a link for You to enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykT2OFXpJkg
Comment by Rainlander — August 26, 2008 @ 10:32 pm
This is the type of fuel cell I was thinking of (The company’s based near my area):
http://www.plugpower.com/technology/benefits.cfm
Kittens as fuel probably wouldn’t be cost effective because they aren’t fat enough for biodiesel and it would be really difficult to convince people it was the patriotic thing to do.
Natural gas and propane are still relatively cheap only because the corps are making their obscene profits on gas and diesel. Any substantial drop in oil consumption, such as widespread use in cars, will jack the price of natural gas and propane up. Currently, the cost of using either for heat is almost equivilent to oil.
Comment by bittershaman2 — August 27, 2008 @ 1:59 am
BS2,
There You go.
Fuel cell technology is in its infancy and there
is no telling how far it will advance.
I guess the point I was making is that an electric car does not need to be an elaborate machine.
Propane is more expensive than other fuels but its energy content is higher than other fuels as well so the price per calorie makes it an alternative and its low in hydrocarbon emmission.
Kittens as Bio-mass fuel is a travesty,
baby seals would be much better after the skins
are harvested for Paris Hilton of course.
I’m surprised that no one has tried methane as a
source in fuel cell technology,Washington DC makes enough of that in a month to propel this nation for years alone.
But seriously,Alternative fuels wont ever become
feasible until it gets its own lobbyist to convince our lawmakers.
Cheers Rain.
Comment by Rainlander — August 27, 2008 @ 6:50 am
Rain, thanks for the rather thorough response. I apologize for not being around more, but I have a life that must be attended to.
The bone I was picking with you was beating up on the poor bedraggled oils and not the Middle East cartel, especially the Arabs.
The big oils only make a 6% markup on product, no matter how awful they are (and I agree they are not honest people). You also need to beat up on Microsoft if you are going down this road, it has a lot higher profit margins.
The reason oils are making so many dollars is because of the price of crude, which is largely dictated by the Saudi’s production rates and world wide demand, not the evil oils!
There is a video out about the EV-1 showing how stupidly GM behaved in the face of enthusiastic support. Both GM and Ford are facing potential bankrupcy (Ford is currently at about $4.00 per share and GM $10 which is very cheap). Their refusal to produce a hybrid, like the Prius, has cost them dearly. They are now facing the grim prospect of going belly-up if they don’t get something fuel efficient on the assembly line, and in a hurry, such as the Volt.
The plug-in hybrid electric is coming and won’t experience a demise, because of the enthusiasm of the most successful car company at present, Toyota, and its competitors.
The centerpiece of capitalism, competition, will cause the success of plug-in hybrids (not the govt BTW). And waste and inefficiency will be eleminated by good old competition (my conservative slip is showing, as Oddcat would say. Sorry).
Even if the first plug-ins only go 20 miles before the gas/diesel engine kicks in, this will still result in an overwhelming reduction in the use of crude. A great many people go less than 20 miles per day.
You and your liberal roommates are doing something else that bothers me a lot – picking on evil big business but not the fed govt. I assure you the federal government is every bit as evil, underhanded, dishonest, and uncaring as business interests. This is one reason I want the Fairtax done; it will link govt directly to the economy. When people spend money (thereby paying the consumption tax) govt will do well. This gives Obama and McCain incentive to keep the economy on an even keel and to support things like the plug-in hybrid, something that WILL, not would, be of great benefit.
Your writing: “The bottom line,
200 million hybrid electric vehicles at .02 per mile in america
alone would free up somewhere in the neighborhood of 440 billion dollars (US 2008 est.).”
No. It should read: “The bottom line,
200 million hybrid electric vehicles at .02 per mile in america
alone WILL free up somewhere in the neighborhood of 440 billion dollars (US 2008 est.).”
Dear God this is exciting stuff! Our best days are ahead of us!
Gringold
Comment by grimgold — August 27, 2008 @ 11:19 am
Bitter, your fuelcell ideas are fine, but energy still needs to be put into a fuel cell before it can be used (obviously). This is where natural gas, propane, methane, nuclear, wind, biodiesel, and even Sunpower comes into play. We have huge amounts of gas that have been discovered recently.
BTW, two stocks you might explore that would be natural gas plays are: Linn Energy (LINE) and El Paso Natural Gas (EP). My source for these – Cramer.
I may vote for Paris Hilton. She makes as much sense as O and Mac.
The oils are not making obscene profits, any more than McDonald’s.
It’s the Middle East producers that are making the obscene profits!
The reason the oils are making so much money is because they are selling so much of the stuff at such a high price, and they take a percentage – about 6%.
Comment by grimgold — August 27, 2008 @ 11:29 am