August 26, 2007

Why are some libs against the FairTax? -Grimgold

Filed under: Uncategorized — grimgold @ 12:54 pm

I wondered, “Why are some liberals against going to a FairTax?” Then an acquaintance of mine hit me over the head with the obvious and the dawn came:
It’s because the idea is being put forward by Neal Boortz, a right-wing conservative talk show radio guy.

I can’t help that. I’ve never even heard Boortz talk show. Just the same, the FairTax is an excellent idea.
Why don’t you liberals take the idea as your own? The Great and All Powerful Rush Limbaugh (whose radio show I’m not worthy to listen to) says Clinton took away ideas from conservatives and adopted them during his presidential campaigns. So why not you?
The idea is bigger than the man.
The FairTax is an excellent idea (so say I) which is worthy of exploration. Have any of you had to tussle with the IRS? This proposal would get the IRS entirely out of individual’s lives. No more 1040’s. No more federal income tax. No more social security tax. No more tax taken out of seniors’ social security checks.
Please get a copy of the FairTax book and secretly (under the blankets with a flashlight) read it.
You will be delighted. In the book are answers to questions such as “How does this benefit the poor?”
The FairTax can easily become a Democrat sponsored idea.
I don’t care; I just want it for our country.



    I’ve read the Fair tax book and have never enjoyed such a work of fiction in my life. No Social Security tax being held out? How many senior citizens do you want eating cat food? You do realize that the taxes being held out today are the ones that are paying the current checks.
    The biggest myth is that if you replace the current system with what is basically a national sales tax you will get rid of the IRS. Who then collects the sales tax? Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
    Now let’s say Bill Gates decides to live abroad the first year of the “fair tax” system. He ( a billionare) would end up paying next to nothing. While a single mother of two would end up paying 25%+ of her income on this “fair” tax. Sounds real fair to me.

    Comment by greyhawk — August 26, 2007 @ 2:13 pm

  2. While many who are invested in the current income tax system seek to demagog the well-researched FairTax plan (*), its acceptance in the professional / academic community continues to grow (**). Renown economist Laurence Kotlikoff believes that failure to enact the FairTax – choosing instead to try to “flatten” what he deems to be a non-flattenable income tax system – will eventuate into an irrevocable economic meltdown (***) because of the hidden aspects of the current system that make political accountability impossible.

    Here is why the FairTax MUST replace the income tax. It’s:

    • SIMPLE, easy to understand
    • EFFICIENT, inexpensive to comply with and doesn’t cause less-than-optimal business decisions for tax minimization purposes
    • FAIR, loophole free and everyone pays their share
    • LOW TAX RATE, achieved by broad base with no exclusions
    • PREDICTABLE, doesn’t change, so financial planning is possible
    • UNINTRUSIVE, doesn’t intrude into our personal affairs or limit our liberty
    • VISIBLE, not hidden from the public in tax-inflated prices or otherwise
    • PRODUCTIVE, rewards, rather than penalizes, work and productivity

    Its benefits are as follows:

    • No more tax on income – make as much as you wish
    • You receive your full paycheck – no more deductions
    • You pay the tax when you buy “at retail” – not “used”
    • No more double taxation (e.g. like on current Capital Gains)
    • Reduction of “pre-FairTaxed” retail prices by 20%-30%
    • Adding back 29.9% FairTax maintains current price levels
    • FairTax would constitute 23% portion of new prices
    • Every household receives a monthly check, or “pre-bate”
    • “Prebate” is “advance payback” for monthly consumption to poverty level
    • FairTax’s “prebate” ensures progressivity, poverty protection
    • Finally, citizens are knowledgeable of what their tax IS
    • Elimination of “parasitic” Income Tax industry
    • Those possessing illicit forms of income will ALSO pay the FairTax
    • Households have more disposable income to purchase goods
    • Savings is bolstered with reduction of interest rates

    • Corporate income and payroll taxes revoked under FairTax
    • Business compensated for collecting tax at “cash register”
    • No more tax-related lawyers, lobbyists on company payrolls
    • No more embedded (hidden) income/payroll taxes in prices
    • Reduced costs. Competition – not tax policy – drives prices
    • Off-shore “tax haven” headquarters can now return to U.S
    • No more “favors” from politicians at expense of taxpayers
    • Resources go to R&D and study of competition – not taxes
    • Marketplace distortions eliminated for fair competition
    • US exports increase their share of foreign markets

    • 7% – 13% economic growth projected in the first year of the FairTax
    • Jobs return to the U.S.
    • Foreign corporations “set up shop” in the U.S.
    • Tax system trends are corrected to “enlarge the pie”
    • Larger economic “pie,” means thinner tax rate “slices”
    • Initial 23% portion of price is pressured downward as “pie”
    • No more “closed door” tax deals by politicians and business
    • FairTax sets new global standard. Other countries will follow

    (*) (.pdf)

    (**) (Lists every tax that FairTax will eliminate, together with the power they represent to pol’s and lobbyists.)

    (***) Listen to an interview where Prof. Kotlikoff elaborates:

    The time for sitting around, pontificating, is over. We have NO CHOICE but to ACT:

    Comment by Ian — August 26, 2007 @ 2:58 pm

  3. Sorry, dude it doesn’t matter who the messenger is: it is not a “Fair Tax.” It hits those who can least afford it the hardest.

    Big deal if they got a refund once a year. What happens between the time they spend the money they can’t afford and the time they get the money back?

    Back to the drawing board.

    And we liberals are less likely to hate the message because of who the messenger is, it is the conservatives who excel at that.

    Comment by LuLu — August 26, 2007 @ 8:19 pm

  4. Lulu, the answer to that is fairly easy. But as soon as I answer you, you’re likely to come up with another objection. Instead, please take a look at the book.

    Comment by grimgold — August 26, 2007 @ 10:12 pm

  5. Lulu, I looked it up, page 85.

    Comment by grimgold — August 27, 2007 @ 9:13 am

  6. Hey, Lulu:
    With a FTax the ONLY payroll deduction would be for Soc Sec.

    No records to keep.

    April 15 would be JUST ANOTHER DAY.

    There are 4 Groups that pay NO FED tax now,
    and with a FTax they would.

    Moonlighting – Under the table pay – tips
    Foreign Tourist

    If you want to discuss it more – email me -
    LVKen7 at

    Comment by LVKen7 — August 27, 2007 @ 11:01 am

  7. I never heard of Neal Boortz either. I just recognize a bad idea when I see one.

    “Read the book” is not a valid defense for this nor any other scheme to transfer (more of) the tax burden from the wealthy to the poor & middle class.

    Comment by Peregrin — August 28, 2007 @ 5:53 am

  8. The previous posters here have either not read the Fair Tax or simply misunderstood it .

    Lulu :
    Where did you read the ” yearly ” refund thing ? It’s called a ” pre-bate ” and it’s each and every month based upon what one would normally pay in consumer tax at the poverty level . Everyone is included from the very poorest to the very wealthiest . FAIR !

    So , how does this hit the poor and middle class ? The poor will pay ” ZERO ” Income and Social Security taxes .

    lvken7 :
    The only deductions from wages for ” ANY ” taxes would be for those assessed by the respective States . NO SOC SEC , NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES WITHHELD .

    peregrin :

    You recognize a bad idea when you see it ? You just proved otherwise . Yes , you should read the book, ” SLOWLY ” .

    This is a non-partisan issue because it effects us all . This could be an excellent first step in the quest to regain our ” STOLEN ” Republic . Yeah , I know , most of you do know what the hell I’m talking about . I suggest scrapping your T.V. and canceling your newspaper . Those are the tools utilized by the shadow Government to dumb down American . Unless you enjoy being a mushroom .

    Comment by Future4u — August 28, 2007 @ 7:33 am

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